The politicians in Washington have their pork, the Oley Valley School Board is no different. The majority voted to approve a track costing well over $1,000,000.
A special interest group complained the current track was not PIAA compliant. They also complained about the surface and appearance.
The estimates for refurbishing the facility began at $450,000. The track supporters promised to pay for half.
Board President Robert A. Heckman reassured the community that there were no decisions to move forward on the request. However, after the board voted to pay an architect $33,000 for a design of the new facility, his assurances were met with skepticism.
Soon other groups arrived with their demands and the costs rocketed over $1,400,000. Again, Mr. Heckman offered more assurances that no decisions were finalized.
Soon, the group that promised to pay half through fund raising could not meet their obligations. The board was forced to change their commitment from funding half the cost to paying “at least half the cost”. In other words, they obligated the taxpayers to pay more than their fair share.
The official cost of this new athletic facility is $1,403,356.00. It will serve up to 120 students. There are over 2,000 students in the district.
The board could have voted for the $820,356 option and met PIAA concerns, instead they choose the most expensive plan. During the bid process, the district refused to consider other less costly options than a synthetic surface.
Had they maintained the track, there would be no need to spend such an enormous sum now.
The track is not state mandated. The state does not consider this an educational expense either because it is not one of the ten exemptions to referendum on school spending.
There will be some who say the money came from the Capital Reserve Fund and not the operational budget, therefore, taxes were not affected. The Capital Reserve Fund is created will tax dollars. When the reserve is depleted by a major expenditure, it is replenished with tax dollars.
The future needs of education will be short $1,403,356.00 and it too must be funded with higher school tax dollars.
The school board could have put the plan in the 2007-2008 budget, thereby requiring in effect, a referendum vote of approval by the entire community rather than the influence of a special interest group on this extravagance.
Seven board member voted “Yes” , Robert A. Heckman, Scarlette Gotwals, Barbara M. Bieber, Richard M. Maloney, Christopher M. Hannum,Kerry Madeira, Ralph C. Richard.
One board member voted “No”, Mary Anne McCarthy. She felt the cost was too high, but she would have voted for a less expensive version. Robert Cappa was absent.
The district wants to raise taxes for the seventh consecutive year in the 2007-2008 budget. Paradoxically, they complain the state does not send enough money for “educational” needs.
The voters will have an opportunity to vote on the board’s perpetual, insatiable, spending appetite in May 2007. There are five seats up for election.
Let your voice be heard!
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460 comments:
1 – 200 of 460 Newer› Newest»Enough is enough, clean sweep in May board elections.
I see that so far two hours have gone by and there are no comments. Really, what is there to say that hasn't been said 100 times before? No sense in beating a dead horse...
No comments because some people in this community must be ashamed of themselves.
Shame?
They can't possibly know the meaning of the word or the board couldn't have saddled another unnecessary, over the top project on the taxpayers.
This vote also indicates most assuredly they also don't know the meaning of the words:
Responsibility,
servititude,
wisdom,
discernment,
humility,
statesmanship,
trustworthiness,
compassion,
respect,
stewardship,
and any other words or terms that represent integrity.
"Had they maintained the trak, there would be no need to spend such an enormous sum now."
Question: Who was it that was on the board in the past that voted no to everything?
Answer: Some of the same folks who are regular bloggers these days.
(RS, LB, BF, RH, etc.)
Had they kept our school current, there would be no need for large projects now. They take credit for having kept taxes low back then, but as we all know, you eventually have to pay the fiddler.
The same can be said for the new roof on the HS and the need for a complete overhaul of the HS gym.
Thanks for keeping the taxes low in years past, but eventually these things need to be done. Our HS was built in 1961, either we keep it updated or we end up like Kutztown, considering building a new facility.
Yes, the track could have been done cheaper, but it would not have been the wiser decision.
For those who can't see beyond mandates, athletics do provide a facet of education that cannot be as easily measured as a math score, but in a life enhanced by values, teamwork, tenacity, etc - things employers look for and colleges ask applicants to demonstrate.
Taxes are not being raised to fund the track project, in fact the district will not need to go to referendum in May because of staying with the index, including exemptions.
Nonsense. The blogger attempting to have anyone believe that past board members are responsible for us NEEDING a sparkly, new track....HAS TO BE A CURRENT BOARD MEMBER. Nobody else would make a comment like that. Right, Doc?
It's a low blow, again, to throw nasty comments at LB, RS, etc. Not only did they serve many years on the board, they post comments on here, and SIGN THEIR NAMES TO THEM. Where, really, do you come off insulting them? If you really want to appease yourselves, why not talk to them in person? Or onthe phone? They have already stated that they are willing to discuss current and past issues with SANE citizens. Perhaps that's where the line is drawn. The "sanity" issue.
It's one thing to comment but another to know what you are talking about, which unfortunately, you don't.
We kept things "current". Millions were spent on renovating the administration building and the high school including repairs to the roof of each building and renovating the gym. Millions more were spent on building an elementry and middle school. We repaved the parking lot, reconditioned the tennis courts and purchased new bleachers for the soccer field. We repaired and resodded the hockey field. Other than the renovation to the administration building, I voted "yes" to each project. And guess what? We were able to do those projects in addition to adding educational programs and still keep taxes reasonable. Taxes were raised every year except one.
I'm not bragging about that, just stating a fact.
Don't try to shift the blame on to those that were previously on the board. Never once did the administration come to the board and request that the track be repaired or replaced. Maybe if they had come to us it would not cost the 1.4 mil. it will cost now.
So, the one board member that initially stated that Oley did not need a new track...Robert Cappa...was not present at this meeting, so does that mean he did not want to be there to have his "no" vote be heard? Sure the way is looks, isn't it? How 'bout it, Robert Cappa......?????Cat got your tongue? It sure is amazing how board members manage to have something better to do on a night that there's an important issue getting voted on, isn't it? They must think we're all idiots to swallow this.
I am generally what you bloggers refer to as a pro-boarder, because I am concerned about the education and educational accountability in the school system at Oley.
After stating that, this track is crazy. How many kids will use this track, maybe 25. That is 20 more than those residents which will use it. Does the board think that those in Pricetown might get in their cars and drive to the school to exercise? It sounds like a personal exercise machine for those that live in walking distance of the school (main street). I don't need to name names.
Bob Heckman was the chairman of the Athletic Committee when I served on the board. Not once did the committee advise the board that the track needed work. You're barking up the wrong tree on that one.
I stand by my entire voting record and the people who elected me -- who were NOT the tax and spenders.
Like our parents' generation, my husband and I have worked to "own" everything we have.... not have everything and own nothing. Seems this school district needs to get back to owning what we have before we go into even greater debt for more than we need.
Ask away all you want about my voting record. I NEVER voted for a program or budget that raised taxes without considering the ramifications to ALL taxpayers.
Anonymous declares..
"Taxes are not being raised to fund the track project, in fact the district will not need to go to referendum in May because of staying with the index, including exemptions."
Predictable misinformation, the blog says it all...
There will be some who say the money came from the Capital Reserve Fund and not the operational budget, therefore, taxes were not affected. The Capital Reserve Fund is created will tax dollars. When the reserve is depleted by a major expenditure, it is replenished with tax dollars.
The future needs of education will be short $1,403,356.00 and it too must be funded with higher school tax dollars.
In response to: "Question: Who was it that was on the board in the past that voted no to everything?
Answer: Some of the same folks who are regular bloggers these days.
(RS, LB, BF, RH, etc.)
Had they kept our school current, there would be no need for large projects now. They take credit for having kept taxes low back then, but as we all know, you eventually have to pay the fiddler."
First of all, I don't believe Barbara Frey has ever blogged on here. She is far too busy with her full-time job, church and volunteer positions.
Secondly, when Barbara, Russ Hottenstein and I were on the board, our votes were most always in the 'MINORITY.' Yes, because we were watch dogs, some of the more ridiculous, and even illegal, things never got to a vote. The majority knew we'd blow the whistle. But as far as us having enough votes to stop a project or tax increase, you are completely wrong.
Finally, I don't recollect ever voting against keeping existing facilities safe, useful and in good repair.
You need to get your facts straight before slandering people. And because you know you are, that's probably why you remain anonymous.
Although I take it as a compliment that you listed me with LB,BF and RH, at the time I was not in agreement with them on many of the issues. I will say, however, that those three had integrety, honesty and a courage of their convictions that is sadly lacking on the board today.
The predicted amount of students/citizens that will actually use the track will probably average out to about a quarter of a million bucks for each actual track lover. Do they call that..."Wunderful Good?"
Certain bloggers were delighted that the district would "finally be held accoutable" with the referendum requirement to raise taxes above a certain index. Now that the preliminary budget has been adopted within that index, including exemptions, will they now be satisfied? I think not.
And the Clean Sweep idea will only be possible if seven or more candidates appear on the May ballot. Get your name in before the March 6th deadline or forever hold your peace.
"Forever hold your peace..." Nice idea, but some of the bloggers on here don't know the concept of peace! It's obvious that there is much anger within! I feel sorry for them!
The feel gooders will not be happy until they force everyone from their homes.
They have no conscience and they are greedy.
Why are you feel-gooders so angry. You always get your way.
Just a little reminder to those who think the money from the capital reserve fund came from the leprechaun behind the school.
It didn't. It came from the taxpayers, with the taxes that they have increased over the last few years.
The taxes we did not need to have raised, but the money they needed to have all the grandiose play things that Dr. Zackon thinks will be his legacy.
I think the first race that should be held on the new Oley track, should be a pig race, and we all know who will have the fattest pig.
I honestly have not looked at this blog since last November when I decided I can no longer take the same 3 or 4 Al Jacobs cronies blogging their same complaints over and over again. Not to mention the personal attacks on the current board members. Anyway, today out of some sad curiosity I thought I'd look in here to see how the board haters reacted to the new track news. Guess what. It's as if I'm reading the same junk over again. Don't you board haters get tired of saying the same things? By the way, which one of you gutsy board hating bloggers will run for school board this time? Put up or shut up.
Go Oley Football
Hey 10:12:
WILL YOU PAY MY PROPERTY TAXES?
I have not seen any personal attacks on current board members in quite a while and would not approve of it if there were any. I can't say the same thing about personal attacks on who you call "Al's cronies". Those bloggers who aren't able to debate an issue normally resort to personal attacks on LB, Al, Cindy or MS.
I think you have the right idea, though. Since you can't stand reading this blog and you don't approve of compaints against the board's actions if I were you I wouldn't waste my time lurking around this site.
Holy jumpin jeehosaphats - a new track - sure hope it goes around a new football field. It sure should for $1,450,000.00. And just think, for an additional hundred grand you will be able to buy an ugly chain link fence to encircle it so as to keep the town's people, who use it to walk and jog and walk dogs, OFF! With cute signs: "OFF, OFF,OFF, I say, this is the 'Heckman/Cappa' track"!
What company is being contracted to build this new track?
"What company is being contracted to build this new track?"
KC Construction of Ivyland, Pa.
There is still some lose ends to tie up before construction.
There is a water main underneath the field. At this point, the thought is to abandon the line, and have a new one built.
The cost is estimated to be $17,000. The question is who will pay it.
Stay tuned.
"Why are you feel-gooders so angry. You always get your way."
Maybe that's why we feel so good....we always get our way! By the way, how can we be angry and feel good at the same time? I think that original comment about people being angry was directed at the feel badders aka anti-school.
Ivyland, Pa?????
Well, nothing like taxing us to death and adding insult to injury by letting "non-Oley residents" do the job. That is a bunch of crappola.
Who's Afraid of the BIG BAD TRUTH?
To 9:43PM:
Want you to go away? Heavens no. I like to share opinions and debate the issues with those who don't see eye to eye with me. If you read my blog carefully you will see that I was referring to the person who said they stopped reading the blog because of the personal attacks on board members and the constant complaints against the board.
You are not the first person to misinterpret my comments as being arrogant and, although I don't mean to be, I guess that's how it comes across. Blame it on the passion of my convictions.
Keep blogging...
"adding insult to injury by letting non-Oley residents do the job"
There are some people that cannot see beyond Oley Township. A whole world does exist beyond Oley. I don't think there is a specialy firm in Oley that does this type of work. Perhaps the KC Construction Company of Ivy, PA does employ an Oley-ite or two, at least its a PA company.
By the way, its not 1954 anymore either, sorry to break it to you.
And I'm accused of being arrogant...
Russ, Al, Cindy, Linda, Mary feel attacked here because they are the only ones bantering back and forth. We're sure to see one of them on the editorial page again soon. The OCC is few in number.
Russ, thanks for the thoughtful content of your blogs. Unfortunately, it appears we are often speaking to fools and trying to respect them at the same time. They simply don't know how to provide facts vs. facts... so they attack the messenger. This is actually one of Karl Marx's tactics, and they don't even know they're using them.
Like my wise old Dad used to say, "don't try to debate with someone who knows less about a subject than you do." And he also said, "don't ever confuse education with intelligence, there's often no correlation whatsoever."
Keep up the good banter, Russ. Many of us agree with you 100%, and thank you for your candor.
Many more people are reading this blog than the limited few accused of above. There are lots of anonymous ones because of what the district does to the children of those who speak their minds.
Why don't these anti-taxpayer bloggers identify themselves? Oh, it must be that pesky little courage and integrity thing again. They don't have any maybe?
"Outsiders" had to be called in to do this scope of work because there were not any "insiders" capable.You see, this type of work can't be performed with a plow and large animals. No , this had to be left to those who are progressive and innovative. This is what happens, unfortuately, when we adopt a philosophy of isolationism. We tend to snub or shun those who suggert ideas that do not conform with main street.
Building this track or supporting a football team are far from futuristic or revolutionary concepts. In fact, believe it or not, they,ve been around for many decades.
There are those who believe that we should be content simply by making potatos chips while others believe we should be making computer chips.
Historically, most have always hated change,yet it is the only thing that bring progress
Just got home from breakfast at the Oley Legion Diner and picking up a few things at Kings. Thought I'd pop on and see what's on the blog about the track since I didn't hear anyone talking about it at either of my morning stops. When I saw there were 37 comments to Al's newest article I was surprised to see that over half were from the regulars, other anonymous complaints, but MUCH less than I was expecting. My own conclusion is that the "vast outrage" that was expected does not exist.
"Historically, most have always hated change,yet it is the only thing that bring progress"
Change in the name of entertainment is not progress but delusional.
"Just got home from breakfast at the Oley Legion Diner and picking up a few things at Kings...My own conclusion is that the "vast outrage" that was expected does not exist."
The scientific pollster should have asked the question whether they were happy about paying higher taxes because of the track.
People may have dropped their groceries or lost their lunch.
Interesting comment 1:19 - The school district shops at King's all the time as evidenced by their check runs. Once again, no regard for the taxpayer, and certainly if it's all right for the school district to spend our money there, we can spend it there too!
You might want to retract your statement. Especially if you're a board member or school employee.
Once again - you don't know the facts!
I don't know the facts? Maybe I didn't make myself clear. Here's a cleaner version:
The food at the legion is not my cup of tea. I prefer to keep SOME of my arteries open, at least for the time being. This is only my opinion, which I'm entitled to have and share. Don't like it, skip to the next part.
King's Food Store....the only items priced in a "fair" range, are those which require coupons. Speaking for myself, I work too hard for my money to do my weekly shopping at this store. The store is clean and neat, which counts for something. But their prices are far higher on many identical items at Redner's and Walmart.
I am not employed by the school, nor am I a board member. I'm a regular working person that budgets my money because I HAVE to. I don't get to influence how and where the board spends my tax dollars, but I certainly know where "I" chose to spend my money.
No retraction here!
You most certainly do get to influcence how your board spends your tax dollars, when you vote them into office, and when you attend board meetings where they supposedly have to discuss how they will be spending your tax dollars.
Are you happy to see the board spending $1.4 million on a new track?
Yes, I for one, am very happy!
Thank you, Oley School Board, for not allowing the narrow minded minority to affect your decisions!
Did you want football?
And I think you have the narrow-minded minority backwards!
Hey 5:43:
What township are you from?
If you are the kind of frugal person that you say you are, will you be driving your car to walk the track everyday, using up all that expensive gas?
It's refreshing to see the mindset of the wonderful residents of this district - those who really don't care that the school district bungles every major undertaking that they've done in the last eight or so years, and are now about to screw up another project.
I guess it doesn't bother you either (5:43 and 5:54) that the school is embroiled in a $1.4 million dollar lawsuit over the middle school.
Seems like you enjoy seeing the school screw up.
Hope that they don't screw up the new track. Sure would be a shame if they did.
Too bad we don't have a crystal ball!
At least the OCC has a MIND!
Better to think for one's self than be led around by your nose by a dictator and his henchmen.
Certainly you've got to know, if you ever have to deal with this board and administration, they will all too quickly forget that you supported the track.
Talk about narrow-minded. Those who think the school board does no wrong, never questions how they spend your tax money and criticizes those who do are the ones who are narrow-minded. This is what happens when logic and critical thinking is no longer taught in the public school system.
No one's paying higher taxes because of the track. That question has been answered. You just like saying it over and over in the hopes that someone will believe it.
Where do you think the money came from?
No one's paying higher taxes because of the track.
No one's paying higher taxers because of the track.
No one's paying higher taxes because of the track.
I see another tax increase in your future....
Please provide a listing of the available times---on a weekly basis---when the new and improved track will be designated for use by the citizens which did, indeed, pay for the new track.
The only money that comes into this school district is from:
a) Taxes
b) Real Estate Transfer Taxes
c) Money from the state or federal government.
d) Interest on investments.
Taxes, real estate transfer tax, my friend, comes from US and those who sell property.
We're not allowed to use any state money for the track, except for the grant money that we will be getting.
The other money for the track will come from the donations that they solicited, which I believe they said was approximately $250,00 (which includes the $70,000 grant money).
If you subtract $250,000 from the 1,405,356 total, that leaves the taxpayers holding the bag for $1,155,356.00.
The state and federal governments certainly didn't give us that amount of money, nor did we make that much in investments.
So please 8:06, tell us where the money came from?
Hey, Federal and State money is taxpayers money too! No matter which way you look at it, the taxpayers ALWAYS pay.
"No one's paying higher taxes because of the track."
If you hurry you can get a great deal on a bridge in Brooklyn.
"I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky...."
That yoyo was impeached(?) still served out his term, and now we're entertaining the idea of voting in his wife????...........
With actions like those, why would anyone think that a conniving little old school board in an ordinary crooked little town would be any different than any other branch of our current government? Politicians do what ever they think they can get away with. Some of them are great at what they do, and some of them stink.
Unless masses of people get a belly full of being pushed around and made a fool of, nothing will change here in Oley, or anywhere.
Then, perhaps it's time for the people of Oley to stand up and speak on behalf of what they believe in, and let this board and administration know we're tired of their crap.
We need to make a change before the State finds out what they've been up to and take the district away. If that happens, there's no telling what the future of eudcation for our children will be.
And please do not be deluded in thinking this does not happen.
It happens for a number of reasons, some of them financial, and some of them because of poor educational results.
Someone mentioned not hearing the track discussed in Oley, then others went on to make disparaging remarks about the restaurant and grocery store rather than the topic - concern about the track. This is an excellent example of how out of focus these bloggers are. People are not in the uproar that the OCC thinks they should be.
Hey 2:00 PM blogger, you sound hysterical - time for another nerve pill.
"People are not in the uproar that the OCC thinks they should be."
It would not make a difference if people were in an "uproar" and pack the boardroom. The politicians in Oley are no different than Harrisburg. They have an agenda no matter what.
That's right, people aren't in an uproar over anything. As long as they have their "American Idol", "Survivor", the soap opera of Anna Nichole and other nonsense they can remain fat, stupid and happy. It's no wonder we lose more control over our lives and our wallets every day.
If it bothers you so much, why are you blogging back. It looks like we're back to goading. You only goad when you want things to go in a different direction.
Sorry to disappoint you, don't need nerve pills.
Nothing is going to change the fact that the Oley School Board is sneaky and underhanded along with the illustrious one.
The day will come when they have to explain.
"People are not in the uproar that the OCC thinks they should be..."
Of course they're not. And there's one good reason why. It's called apathy. Nearly everyone falls into the same boat. As long as they can pay their school taxes, they pay little or no attention to anything the board is doing. Our entire country is the same way. Sooner or later, this will come back to haunt us.
I can't wait to see AJ, RS, CS,and MS, and LB run for the school board in the upcoming election. Just think, they could be in the majority. Since they are so truly devoted, I'm sure they can make this school district perfect! C'mon bloggers, support your OCCers who are going to step up to the plate and lend their perfection to the Oley Valley School District! Since they believe our district is in such horrid shape, then surely they will not disappoint!
Hey, 8:08, will you sign my petition?
The OCC has the facts. You do not have the facts. We are smart, you are stupid. We no what we are talking about. You do not.
Hey RS! Since you have soooo many OCC supporters, I'm most certain that you do not need my signature! Thanks for asking, though. ;)
Oh my! It looks as if the OCC still has the facts! Way to go, people!!! Please keep enlightening us!
9:42....
..."Way to go, people...?"
Well, now that you've greatly narrowed down your identity...
!
10:09 You make no sense. No sense at all!
Hey smart OCC blogger of 8:38 Feb.25, you're very smart but can't spell - its KNOW, not NO. Thanks for calling everyone else stupid - you did spell that correctly.
Yes, let's talk about goading for a moment. The title of this blog is "Board Chooses a Track Over Education," as if there was choice A or B and the track was selected over something else.
and ....
"The day will come when they will have to explain," ooooh this sounds ominous. Al knows that the cost of the track didn't come from state or federal money, or from raising local taxes. Al can explain the details of the swap money and the unexpected income from a property sale which total nearly $1.5 million. Al, maybe you should explain because these bloggers haven't been paying attention.
First of all, any money the school district has belongs to the taxpayers. Rather than giving the taxpayers a break (with their money), the board decided to spend it like a bunch of drunker sailors.
Secondly. LB and her husband have their house for sale, have an agreement on a home in another state and will be out of here as soon as they sell here.
Now you have the facts.
And now I "no" the facts.
Mary Swartz has not been on this blog in weeks. Thats a fact!
As a Navy veteran, I don't appreciate the reference to sailors as drunkards.
What would be the purpose in gossipping the LB news on here?
LB is a fair and honest person. If there's anything anyone actually feels they have the right to know about her personal and financial affairs, perhaps they should contact her in person.
I have not read anything on here from MS in quite some time. Why does anyone feel they've got the right in insert her name in a conversation with which she's had no input?
Like many of us, MS is a busy mom. In the event that she had any spare time after she's done taking her children to and from various activities spanning miles of Berks County, her input on this blog would be her business. She's interested in providing her children with a well rounded education. That's more than I can say for many parents that feel comfortable allowing the school district to raise their children.
'...well rounded education...'
That includes things that are not state mandated. That includes things that might be on the PSSA's. That might also mean extracurricular activities that teach the kids social skills and discipline, the way we learned things in the old days.
We don't have time for this well rounded stuff. We only have time for the so called, mis-interpretted facts that periodically get mentioned on the blog.
MS and AS pays for their children to do the extra activities outside this district. She is not yelling for more activities in the district. I know for a fact (fact, thats the word) MS cares about the education of all the children in this district and that it must come before all the fun stuff.
What is this, National Midol Day? Lighten up, bloggers. Let he/she who is without sin, cast the first tantrum.
What MS does for her children, such as activities which are not paid for by the school, is not only a benefit to her children, it's a benefit to all of us. Well rounded children make well rounded adults. That's good for everyone. How nice!
"Al knows that the cost of the track didn't come from state or federal money, or from raising local taxes."
At a public meeting, the board said they will use money from the Capital Reserve Fund to pay for the track.
The Capital Reserve Fund comes from money transfered from the General Fund.
The General Fund gets funds from local, state, and federal taxes.
Local taxes are property, transfer ,and earned income, and per capita taxes.
The property taxes provide the preponderance of funds.
The swap money comes from an option agreement the board made with the existing General Obligation Bonds financed with property taxes.
The debt service on the bonds amounted to $3,169,254 in the 07-08 budget or 4.88 mills of taxes.
If interest rates take a turn during the span of the agreement, the taxpayers could owe money.
The approximate $850,000 dollars derived from the deal was put in the General Fund. This money could have been used for operational expenses and thereby reduced property taxes.
The board choose instead to hurriedly transfer this money to the Capital Reserve Fund so that it could only be used for capital expenditures.
This tactic is blunted by the fact that some Capital Reserve money can be used for certain operational expenses, books, computers, desks, etc., and thus give some property tax relief.
The $741,000 the district claimed they knew nothing about are tax dollars.
How can you lose track of $741,000!?
Like the swap money, these funds were put in the General Fund. Using a different strategy to keep money away from tax relief, the board reclassified this money as "designated unreserved fund balance".
By doing this they prevent it from being used to reduce millage increases.
The poster says the $741,000 will be used for the track.
Only a board member would know this executive session information, because they publicly claim no decision has been made on its use.
The $1,405,356 represents 2.16 mills of taxes.
The playing of games with fund transfers to give the illusion these are not tax dollars and it has no affect on millage, suits the needs of the board to appease special interest groups during elections.
The board voted to approve a 6% increase in the 2007-2008 budget.
You can bet some of this will go to replenish the $1,405,356 they poured into a track.
Therefore, the taxpayers have paid twice, once to put the money in the reserve funds, and now to reimburse them.
There you go, Al, trying to reason with the unreasonable. Their mind is made up and nothing will change them. I can afford all the taxes this board can throw my way. Can they? I hope so.
Testy aren't we: The comments about 'well rounded' were not directed at MS. I purposely excluded her initials from my comments. It was just general comments.
I personally like MS and think she is a good parent and appreciate the efforts that she puts forward at OVES. I wish more individuals, those with and those without would take part in our community's school and the activities that go on at the school.
10:34...
"I can afford all the taxes this board can throw my way..."
Hey, that's good news! How about sharing your wealth? There's more than one family in Oley School District that are not in your shoes. Are you willing to help any of those people that are robbing Peter to pay Paul? Just wondering...
Many citizens in our area battle with their budgets every single week. We've worked hard to have a decent home is a decent neighborhood. When we inquire about how our tax dollars are being spent, we're all but ushered out the door. Pretty darned sad when you think about it. Giving up medical care, clipping coupons, and living like a hermit, just to stay in our own homes.
So who is going to run for school board this time? 5 openings. Has anyone said they are running?
Yes, I'm pretty sure that RS, MS, LB, CS, and big Al are running. They all tell us they know all the facts. They all tell us about the slime balls currently on the board. Certainly they cannot choose not to run. They would be unethical in choosing to turn their backs to the needs of this district.
'...So who is going to run for school board this time? 5 openings. Has anyone said they are running?...'
I am! I just got my petitions notarized today. What a pain. Now is the worst part. I have to make a return trip into the big city (Reading). Election services - 1st floor to the right after the airline screening process.
Yes, the info. about my husband and me is true ... we are leaving the state as soon as our house is sold. We hope it's real soon.
No, because of the above, LB is NOT seeking a seat on the school board.
These ARE the facts.
1. I spent 13 years on the board and have no desire to ever run again. I don't even know if I will be living in the district in two or three years.
2. No, I do not and never did claim to know all the facts. I have opinions but I guess that's not allowed unless they agree with you.
3. I have never, ever referred to any member of the board as a "slimeball". I have never called any of them derogatory names and never will. I don't agree with everything they do but I certainly do not hate them. I don't hate anyone.
It's disingenuous to suggest that if a person does not run for school board then, somehow, that disqualifies them from criticizing the board. I don't agree with alot of things the senate does so I guess I can't criticize them unless I run for Senator, right?
I wish all those who elect to run all the success. Regardless of what people say (and you hear it all the time) serving on the board is NOT a thankless job. But it isn't easy...
Al better not run for the board, since he doesn't know the difference between what are executive session topics and what must be discussed "in the Sunshine." So, the OCC is not all-knowing, and some facts elude you.
Mary had a little van
little van
little van
Mary had a little van
gassed up and ready to go
and everywhere that Mary went
Mary went
Mary went
Everywhere that Mary went,
her kids were sure to go.
She drove her kids
to school one day
school one day
school one day
She drove her kids
to school one day
IT'S NOT AGAINST THE RULES!
SHEEEEEEE comes to help
at school some days
school some days
school some days
SHEEEEEEE comes to help
at school some days
The kids all love her so!
Is that the part that bothers you, mystery blogger? The fact that MS is a great parent and is good with her children and all the kids she comes in contact with? They LOVE her. Is that the part that bothers you? If MS were to run, she'd get my vote, and plenty others, too!
Lots of children, including those of MS, do participate in many school sponsored extra-curricular activities. Activities that some consider "fluff" but contribute to someone being a well-rounded individual. Do we want students who are just book smart, or are we educating the next generation to be able to compete in a global market? Get off your Main St., Oley front stoop.
If that is true Al isn't the only one who doesn't know what topics are for executive sessions and which ones are not. The board doesn't seem to know either
RS or LB can enlighten us all.
"If that is true Al isn't the only one who doesn't know what topics are for executive sessions and which ones are not. The board doesn't seem to know either"
He must have touched a sore spot with a board member posting on the blog. Where there is smoke, there is a fire.
To 6:18PM
So who are you now that you decided to run for school board?
Tell us who you are. Are you the stealth candidate? What kind of campaign will you run if no body knows you?
Have you noticed that whenever someone catches Al spinning, they are credited with being a board member? And the rest of us little people are called stupid?
7:28: You are SUCH a nice person. Just think, you have the whole day ahead of you and already you are filled with such negative thoughts. I hope Linda continues to blog here after she leaves but why should she waste her time on people who really don't get it.
I agree with "who the?"
What kind of knuckle head would tell everyone that he did his paperwork to run for school board but not even tell anyone his name?
Please secret candidate tell us who you are so I can be sure NOT to vote for you. Good grief!!
To the writer of
"7:28: You are SUCH a nice person. Just think, you have the whole day ahead of you and already you are filled with such negative thoughts."
Dont forget your $5.50 MaxCrema cup of green herbal tea on the way to your yoga/meditation class. It will help YOU keep your thoughts pure and positive. And don't forget your mind reading class at RACC.
"Have you noticed that whenever someone catches Al spinning, they are credited with being a board member?"
For what I read, he is talking about public information.This must be a problem for the feel gooders.
Well, it might mean that feel-gooders make everyone else feel like crap because their taxes are what elates the feel-gooders and they get nothing in return.
Feel-gooders take and take and take and take and don't care about the people who get absolutely nothing but abuse for their fiscal responsibility.
Yeah, Feel-gooders, it is YOU who make everyone else feel like crap. If that still makes you feel good, you're really beyond help.
RESPONSE TO:
"You know what the best part of the internet is?
Even after Linda B moves out of state, she can still continue her blithering rants here on the blog."
"Blithering rants?"
You folks aren't happy when I come to board meetings, and you're not happy when I don't.
You're not happy when I blog, and you're not happy when I don't. You weren't happy when I was on the board, and you taunt me because I won't seek a seat again. Unfortunately, your apparent miserable state of mind poisons every person and issue you address. And, rest assured, blogging is not part of my retirement plans.
My maternal and paternal ancestors have been in the Oley Valley since the early 1700's. Only now can I begin to understand why they emigrated from Germany, France and Holland to the United States. We too are persecuted (in a much smaller way, of course) by extraordinary demands on our personal property . In the spirit of our ancestors, we have decided to move onto a different place, where we can afford to live out our lives.
And still you aren't happy. But, to understand our position would require compassion and understanding? Do you have any, oh, critical anonymous blogger?
We can pay our taxes now but, at the current rate of runaway spending, in 10 years we are sure we won't be able to keep up with them. So, we're cashing out now, and running away to a place with NO SCHOOLS!!!!!
There are very nice people here and very nice people there. That's not the issue.
The blood sucking "tax and spenders," who feel good about it, ARE the issue and the reason.
Every effort has been made to present factual information. School district records, PDE data, Federal and state information, articles pertaining to education.
A very wide latitude has been afforded everyone with the opportunity to offer their views, even to the point of being off-topic.
Those who oppose the blog presentations have not responded in kind with their own source of information. Instead, they have chosen to launch personal attacks.
Not too long ago a request was made that bloggers do not post gossip about board members, other bloggers, or members of the community. You can add personal attacks.
Gossip, personal attacks, etc. are out of bounds. These posts will be deleted.
Conservative or liberal opinions are fair game for criticism, but venomous attacks are not.
If the elevated moderation of the blog does not solve the problem, then tighter controls will be implemented.
Well said, Al. I have tried to keep my comments issue oriented and the debate reasonable. However, time and again those of us who try to give our opinion (and they are opinions) are met with derision and ridicule from those who are incapable of the calm discussion of issues.
My advice to those who insist on name-calling, sarcasm and taunting is to grow up or create your own blog on which to play your silly games.
'...Every effort has been made to present factual information. School district records, PDE data, Federal and state information, articles pertaining to education...'
I don't believe anyone is stating that the information being presented is not factual. However, I believe that ALL the facts are not being presented in full context where a true story is being told.
An example would be the short 'story' you wrote about the football proposal. You stated that the AD's investigation concluded an annual expense of somewhere in the range of $105,000. However, somehow you did not appear to state that these figures included some costs that were not specific to the football expenses, and were not reflective of actual costs dedicvated to football. The FACT of the matter is that in at least two public discussions of the matter, the board members agreed that the actual cost of a program for HS, JV and Jr. HS was an amount that ranged from $60, to $65,k.
Yet at NO time did the blog site retract or change the story line. This amount, by many of our standards, may very well be too expensive, at that is fine, and something that that organization need to address and possibly overcome. However, it does not bid well for the credibility of the 'FACTS' that are so often presented.
This is just one example. I can recall similar exclusions of other pertinent facts in other stories, that lead me to question the story lines here as well as the spin coming from the board. Policy changes and public speaking comes right to mind.
Therefore, if anyone wishes to utilize the FACTS as their basis in a debate, it is their responsibility to present all the facts, those that support their opinion as well as those that don't. Otherwise, the general public will discount everything.
“I don't believe anyone is stating that the information being presented is not factual. However, I believe that ALL the facts are not being presented in full context where a true story is being told.”
Frankly, this is in the eye of the beholder. One person’s facts are another person’s distortions.
The information comes from documented sources. Opinions are formulated from the data.
Everyone is entitled to their express their opinion on the blog.
“An example would be the short 'story' you wrote about the football proposal. You stated that the AD's investigation concluded an annual expense of somewhere in the range of $105,000. However, somehow you did not appear to state that these figures included some costs that were not specific to the football expenses, and were not reflective of actual costs dedicvated to football. The FACT of the matter is that in at least two public discussions of the matter, the board members agreed that the actual cost of a program for HS, JV and Jr. HS was an amount that ranged from $60, to $65,k.”
At the last meeting, Scalette Gotwals said the figures from the football group did not contain all potential expenses. Stands and lights are the examples she sighted.
Therefore, there is still a dispute about the football numbers.
The supporters are welcome to present their estimates, but they should not be upset if the numbers are challenged. Those opposing any major additional spending without viable financing sources, may also have different feelings about these requests.
The blog creates atmosphere to present both sides and the resulting discussion.
“This is just one example. I can recall similar exclusions of other pertinent facts in other stories, that lead me to question the story lines here as well as the spin coming from the board. Policy changes and public speaking comes right to mind.”
The policy changes the board made were directed at certain taxpayers whom the board finds a nuisance.
Prior to the football group, there were a number of times taxpayers arrived at meetings during the budget process to question the spending plans of the board.
If we arrived in May, we were told we should have been there sooner. If we came in January, we were told, we came too early.
We filled the boardroom, we submitted petitions to have our voices heard, only to be ignored, belittled, and chastised. Unlike other groups who were given ample time to voice their plans, the board try to cut us off. One board member even wrote a letter to the editor describing people as diatribes, and he was tired of listening to the constituents. The board said or did nothing, which is a tacit approval of his bigotry.
The football supporters got a small taste of the board's rejection.
They decided to create more obstacles by changing public participation and public records policies. Both were redesigned to inhibit comments at the regular board meeting and access to public records. They described these attacks on the First Amendment and the Right to Know Laws as “structuring”.
These changes are directed at a particular group, but their application can affect everyone whom the board deems not “relevant”.
“Therefore, if anyone wishes to utilize the FACTS as their basis in a debate, it is their responsibility to present all the facts, those that support their opinion as well as those that don't. Otherwise, the general public will discount everything.”
Again, the numbers come from the district, PDE, etc.. It is incumbent on those who differ with those figures to present information to the contrary.
The public will the have background information other than from a smiling, glad handing politician running for school board.
Finally, your post is one of the few that offer differing views without name calling or personal attacks.
We need more of them.
'...Finally, your post is one of the few that offer differing views without name calling or personal attacks...'
You are welcome. I respect you,and your efforts, but only agree with approximately 50% of your published opinions.
'...These changes are directed at a particular group, but their application can affect everyone whom the board deems not “relevant”...'...'...Frankly, this is in the eye of the beholder. One person’s facts are another person’s distortions...'
I believe that you are trying to state that the board is bullying you and your initiatives. However, if I remember correctly (and this is a paraphrase), the board wanted to formalize its procedures in a manner that was consistent to the true nature of the way that the board runs it meeting, etc, etc, etc.
Therefore, I do agree that one person's facts are easily distorted into opinion.
As for Dr. Gotwals parting shots at football -- they are meaningless jibberish (my opinion). Additional expenses - bleachers and lights! A week later votes to spend $1.4 on track and infield. You don't think those extra's are far behind. You don't think she knew that? Who doesn't believe they are not going to be pushing for field hockey under the lights? Therefore, her comments can not be justifiably used to support anything.
It ain't over
'til the fat lady sings.
I didn't know there are communities with NO SCHOOLS. I know Delaware has no property taxes though.
I'm pretty sure the "no schools" part was a joke, of sorts. Unless she's planning on moving to a place like Deadwood. In that town, if you didn't like the tax rate, you had more than one choice.
Nobody escapes school taxes. You may find a location with lower taxes, but that's about it.
"I believe that you are trying to state that the board is bullying you and your initiatives."
Bully, ignore, berate, belittle,demean,degrade, pick your terms.
In the politest terms possible, they are self serving hypocrites and bigots, when they trip over themselves to listen to one group then restrict another.
If they do not want to listen to all the community, then they should not be on the board.
"However, if I remember correctly (and this is a paraphrase), the board wanted to formalize its procedures in a manner that was consistent to the true nature of the way that the board runs it meeting, etc, etc, etc."
The pomp and circumstance behind the policy changes to "formalize" or to "structure" meetings is nothing more than a smokescreen to prevent people asking, in this case, financial information about district spending.
The "true nature" of a governing body's business is the business of the people not the convenience or the comfort of the politicians.
If they are squeamish about answering questions ( a rarity) or they are in a hurry to get home, then they need to find another avocation.
A local school board winking at our constitution to suit their needs deserves resistance and removal from office.
Amen to that, Al!
In response to: " I'm pretty sure the "no schools" part was a joke, of sorts. "
No, it's not a joke. But it is a delight.
We do not have a school and we don't pay school taxes, where we're moving and have had a summer home for 13 years. By the way, I've been to Deadwood and it's nice, as are the Black Hills -- we've been there. But, we're not going West. And the only reason you would care about where we're going is so you can find another way to mock me.
Rendell has a plan to lower property taxes by raising the sales tax from 6 to 7%. He wants to use a full 1/3 of that additional revenue to reduce property taxes. What does he plan to do with the rest of the money? Keep one eye on Harrisburg OCC.
How many of us poor, over-taxed, cat food-eating property owners have a summer home elsewhere?
I know I don't.
I hear Area 51 doesn't have any schools but the taxes are probably out of this world.
Linda and her husband worked hard and saved for that summer home. I realize since you don't have one no one else should have one either but that isn't how it is in America.
I knew you'd find a way to mock me. Now you think you're entitled to something my Uncle gave me?
Someone wrote about Dr.Gotwalls, "Therefore, her comments can not be justifiably used to support anything.
5:53 PM, February 27, 2007"
That being the argument, the same should be said about Al Jacobs's commentaries here.
We've worked hard to maintain it and improve what it was. You got a problem with that?
And, yes we have worked hard -- my husband 5 years in the USMC and another 40 years in the work force. I'm still working -- It'll be 41 years this June.
I've tried to be open, honest and reasonable. My detractor(s) certainly doesn't know how to respond in kind.
You have no business putting my name on this blog telling all that I am not for football or how I feel about this district. If I want to write about how I feel and the facts of this district I will write. Mind your own business. I actually think the football group did a great job starting this program and I hope some will run for board but not only for football but for all the children in this district. We need change now. This board has put this school district in bad shape and we need a complete change. I am interested in all that want to run to tell us what they will do for this district.
After taking a break from this blog, we see plenty of changes. Unfortunately, none of them are what we'd call improvements.
shoot
"Comment Moderation," is that the new politically correct term for censorship? A strange turn of events in anyone's book!
For those about to do some traveling, they've got some new maps available:
what maps?
out of control
Some of those LB posts look like they were written by an impostor.
I am glad someone did something about the hateful remarks. Some came to goad and mock not contribute.
There's a whole new "pack" of problem bloggers lately, it seems. Comment moderation has been enabled? Good!
Well then let's hope that some of the hateful comments made by the occ'ers will be censored as well. What do you say, Al?
This blog is a joke. For Al's amusement only.
Isn't there some famous quote about "becoming that which I loathe" or something like that?
Maybe CS can research that for us.
It's not exactly like the OCC bloggers invented hateful, rude, and downright creepy comments. There's been plenty of this going both ways. Why not skip the personal likes and dislikes, and get to the facts?
Well, 7:46, that goodwill tour lasted a long time, didn't it? Quit blasting EVERYONE, and blog about something that makes sense! Like, oh maybe, getting a good education for our children and leaving a few cents for their parents to EAT.
Blog Readership Grows
The blog started in March 2006 and the total number of people who visited in that year was 11,737. They initiated 17,864 page views.
In the first two months of 2007, the total number of visitors was 3,486, and they viewed 4,972 pages.
The projected readership for this year will more than exceed the totals of last year.
Al, you know that there were only four people visiting 871 times each that created those numbers for the first two months.
Although I apparently missed a comment in which an individual's name was used inappropriately, I do not believe the censorship is appropriate.
I find it obscure, that the champion of the cause against the boards' policy for time allotment, etc. at meetings is now imposing similar restrictions on the blog.
There has been many useless postings on this blog over the past year, quite possible in excess of 75% of all. However, the correlation to that opinion is that 25% or more of the posts on the blog are routed in sincere concern and objective points of view and debate.
Unfortunately, if the OCC imposes an editing or approval process, thwarting public comment and opinion (whether actual or perceived), then the credibility and usefulness of the blog are in question.
I feel bad for those (especially those who are NOT on the board, or active in public discussions of the boards actions) who may have been inappropriately targeted on this site. However, that is NOT justification to impose censorship.
In the past I have had several sincere and respectful discussions via the blog with many of the other bloggers and recently AJ, and will miss the blogging, but feel threatened by this 'moderation' control in place.
I will say it before someone else does: Those figures reflect four or five people visiting the blog 800 times each in the last two months to reach that figure. There, now truth is out...
It is apparent that the blog's increasing readership irritates those who think concerned taxpayers are few in number.
The theory that only a handful of people are posting is contradicted by the number of "new" visitors to the blog.
These new visitors turn into return visitors and the numbers grow.
It is also apparent that there is a group that dislikes the idea of the public seeing any information at all.
Making records available to the community is in the interests of everyone. As a matter of fact, it is the law.
An informed voter should not be a problem....for most citizens.
Censorship? Hmmm!?! Didn't I read complaints over and over again about the board censoring the citizens? Hmmm!!!
...."for most citizens"...!!!!
That comment made my day!
In the past there have been folks who prided themselves on their devotion to a cause, and even the writings/teachings of an individual, which eventually progressed to limiting outside viewpoints. Then their nirvana ended - some with a Kool-Aid cocktail, others in a Texas blaze. I predict the OCC will end much less dramatically under the heading of "comment moderation."
Al Jones?
There is the contention that the school millage rates do not create a hardship on families.
Often there is a challenge by the naysayers to provide the names of these alleged victims.
Each year the district calculates at least five percent of revenues will be delinquent.
The Delinquent Real Estate Tax List for 2006-2007 proves the scoffers wrong:
Alsace Township - $196,218.27
Oley Township - $115,746.00
Pike Township - $52,126.02
Ruscombmanor Township - $149,866.35
Total = $513,956.64
There are names associated with these numbers, people who face the prospect of losing their homes.
“Deadbeats” say the defenders of high taxes.
No, they are human beings who are added to a growing list of citizens being trampled by the insatiable spending appetite of a callous and indifferent school board.
Well said again Al. I like Mr. Heckmans article in the Times today saying he and his bad knees will use the new track. What knees? can he actually see them. Yes this is a low blow but then again he low blows all of us when he raises our taxes year after year. And then he sits there with a big red face thinking I got you people again. Time for him to be removed from the board. Anybody, somebody take over with a clear mind and a care for all of the citizens and children of this district.
Anyone new you got my vote. Any change will be a refreshing start to hopefully a rewarding school district with children that actually are happy to come and learn. We need to keep the people of this district in their homes. We are America and this disgrace of a district has to change. We should not be putting our people out.
'..."Deadbeats” ..."
In all my years at public meetings, I have never heard anyone referred to as deadbeat?
The 95% revenue/collection figure has always been troubling to me. It is a formula that is either similar or the same as it has been for the past twenty-five + years.
Your delinquencies figures are used as a "shock" factor. However, to make the the numbers really mean something, please provide an more useful analysis that compares the increase by percentage over the past 3 years, 5 years, 20 years, etc. This was a recent topic at a township meeting, and the twp official stated that the delinquency percentage is the same.
Please don't take this as an insensitive comment, but the bias nature of the statement from the OCC on the day we received our first RE tax bill in the mail is pecular. I do cringe everytime I have to pay my taxes also. I cringe at the thought of paying the extraordinary amount of federal FICA, Medicare, and income taxes. I cringe everytime I get my estimated coupons in the mail from PA dept of Revenue.
However, to utilize numbers, without a point of reference, for the readers to have a chance to truly put meaning to the number could be considered deceitful, which is what many consider the school boards actions to be.
Therefore, I would ask if the delinquency (by percentage, not amount since the property value are constantly increasing due to improvements and new buildings)rate is or has been increasing in the past years? I am unaware of such increases. I would think that if it increasing by percentile, then the board would have to change its long-time formula of 95%.
As for the 'defender of high taxes comment' I have never heard anyone defend high taxes. There is a difference on high taxes, and believing that certain things are needed and essential to the school so that the children can have a life at least as good as the one that we have enjoyed. That is truly our only obligation in life.
To call someone a defender of high taxes is like stating if you don't want to increase water standards you are in favor of making children drink polluted water.
If this blog is about sharing ideas and concerns, than lets debate, but lets be honest and fair.
I hope these comments aren't censored since freedom of speech is under blog attack.
"Mr. Heckmans article in the Times today saying he and his bad knees will use the new track. What knees? can he actually see them. Yes this is a low blow but then again he low blows all of us when he raises our taxes year after year. And then he sits there with a big red face..."
Mr. Jacobs, can't you comment moderate this personal insult toward Bob Heckman. OCC always accuses others with this type of name calling but here you have a clear example that you have approved of by allowing the posting. Shame shame.
Maybe Al did not have the time yet to take off any insults of BH. Keep the OCC names off and we will keep the boards names off the blog. Yes sometimes tax increases are needed but when you have over $4 million sitting in our district you can give the taxpayers a break even for one year. Come on, we know it costs alot of money for educating the children but did we have to spend $1.4 million on a non-educational item, and then raise our taxes again? It is the same story year after year. People get tired of the same old zapping the taxpayer. Give us a one-year no tax increase, like the football said a one-year timeout.
Hello and good morning!
Allow me to introduce myself. I'm Jacob Q. SeniorCitizen. I've got two knees that aren't worth a wooden nickel. As a matter of fact, nearly everyone I know has either one or two bum knees. It sure does my heart good to know that fellows, such as Mr. Heckman, are publicly proclaiming that they will get to use the brand new track, bad knees and all. Good for you, Hecky! Good for you! Me and my old pals can NOT use the track, have no use for the track, and never will. But we get to PAY for it. Ain't life grand?
“In all my years at public meetings, I have never heard anyone referred to as deadbeat?”
I have heard the expression at public meetings by people in the audience and from conversations from individuals working in government.
The solutions offered those in hardship is, “they should tighten their belts, handle their finances better”, or “they can leave”.
“Your delinquencies figures are used as a "shock" factor.”
$513,956.64 is a lot of money, to the working person who tries to make ends meet. The board just shrugs their shoulders.
“However, to make the the numbers really mean something, please provide an more useful analysis that compares the increase by percentage over the past 3 years, 5 years, 20 years, etc. This was a recent topic at a township meeting, and the twp official stated that the delinquency percentage is the same.”
If you take five percent of the total yearly increased district revenue, the resultant delinquency dollar figure will also increase.
The percentage may be the same but the dollar amount increases. The increased dollar amount strongly suggests there are more people unable to pay taxes not the same or less.
To clarify the issue, I asked the board what was the breakdown on the 2006-2007 list of repeat and new delinquencies. Nobody had any idea, the business manager, the superintendent, or the board. If they really care, they should know.
“Please don't take this as an insensitive comment, but the bias nature of the statement from the OCC on the day we received our first RE tax bill in the mail is pecular. I do cringe everytime I have to pay my taxes also. I cringe at the thought of paying the extraordinary amount of federal FICA, Medicare, and income taxes. I cringe everytime I get my estimated coupons in the mail from PA dept of Revenue.”
This is an insensitive comment to those who face the prospect of being forced from their homes because they cannot pay their school taxes. It is not because they have done anything wrong, it is because they cannot keep up with the never ending, excessive tax increases.
More and more workers are facing this problem.
Payroll taxes cannot not force families from their homes, but school taxes can and do.
“However, to utilize numbers, without a point of reference, for the readers to have a chance to truly put meaning to the number could be considered deceitful, which is what many consider the school boards actions to be.”
Your complaint is not the accuracy of the number but rather its presentation. The dollar amount of estimated delinquency is a significant figure. There is nothing deceitful about discussing this public information and having an opinion on its implications.
“Therefore, I would ask if the delinquency (by percentage, not amount since the property value are constantly increasing due to improvements and new buildings)rate is or has been increasing in the past years? I am unaware of such increases.”
There is no data that some new homes and some reassessment reduce the importance of the increased dollar amount of tax delinquency. There is probably is some effect, but not enough to dismiss the delinquency figure as meaningless.
“I would think that if it increasing by percentile, then the board would have to change its long-time formula of 95%.”
As long as they continued their excessive spending, the board would be increasing the percentage if the area did not show any growth in homes and incomes.
Conversely, if the board acted in a fiscally responsible manner, then a stagnant home and income growth would not require an increase in the estimated percentage delinquency.
“As for the 'defender of high taxes comment' I have never heard anyone defend high taxes. There is a difference on high taxes, and believing that certain things are needed and essential to the school so that the children can have a life at least as good as the one that we have enjoyed. That is truly our only obligation in life.”
I think you just defended higher taxes in the name of the “children”.
This phrase gets politicians elected to office and fattens the wallet of the teachers union, but little else.
The cost of education has outpaced inflation and wages, yet independent test scores show little or no academic improvement in relation to the amount of investment.
The situation became so bad that the federal and state governments are forcing the schools to do a far better job. There is movement in Congress to make the educators pay based on performance not tenure.
History has proven, high taxes do not provide a better education, only accountability will accomplish that.
“To call someone a defender of high taxes is like stating if you don't want to increase water standards you are in favor of making children drink polluted water.”
As long as you are actually making the water better, rather than paying more money to people in the name of the "children" to say the water is better.
What do you do if independent tests say the water is not better?
“If this blog is about sharing ideas and concerns, than lets debate, but lets be honest and fair.”
Every effort is being made towards that end.
'...To clarify the issue, I asked the board what was the breakdown on the 2006-2007 list of repeat and new delinquencies. Nobody had any idea, the business manager, the superintendent, or the board. If they really care, they should know...'
That does not surprise me, nor would expect them to know such information. They are 'trying' (lack of a better word) to run a school. The utility companies are in the same position, and I would assume that the board of directors at UGI are not aware of their ratio of new customer delinquencies v. old delinquencies.
However, thoughout your response to me, you have objected to many of my observations, but at no point did you actually respond or answer the questions. Your response was similar to a response that the board give the public.
There were a few of you comments that did not seems to make a whole lot of sense to me, such as:
"Payroll taxes cannot not force families from their homes, but school taxes can and do."
You are incorrect - Young people who are striving to obtain the dwindling opportunities for the american dream must take out mortgages to finance the homes. The payroll taxes, being taken from them, are prohibiting these pursuits, and default on a mortgage, and the bank is a heck of a lot quicker to force one from their home then the school is.
"...The cost of education has outpaced inflation and wages, yet independent test scores show little or no academic improvement in relation to the amount of investment..."
This sounds like a politician sound bite. However, I do concede that the cost of education, as well as the cost of health care, etc. are exceeding at too fast of a pace. Therefore, I would suggest that the adults in this country should get on the politicians to correct the curriculum to meet the needs of the future.
To be helpful, it would be interesting in seeing what area's of the budget (and related inflation) are growing at abnormal and unacceptable rates. Certain area's I can hold the board accountable for, and certain area's are not within the boards control, such as the sweet heart pension funding that the union has via state law, the new and 'improved' requirements for funding special needs children, and a host of additional programs which are constantly jammed down the local boards throats.
"...I think you just defended higher taxes in the name of the “children”..."
I did no such thing. Based on that thought process, you attitude and comments are suggesting that you are in favor of lowering taxes without regard for education or the childrens future.
I am 100% behind being fiscally conservative, but I am not at all in line with the thought that today's children should do with less then the previous generations. If there is wasteful spending, then lets identify it. However, just because something is not mandated doesn't make is wasteful.
I agree that the track is not appropriate right now, but that does not mean that all non mandated activities need to be eliminated. Band, basketball, baseball are very usefule and critical activities that I whole heartedly support.
New technologies - Essential. However, if new technologies are to be used, the are replacing something which should have a cost associated with it.
There were alot of really interesting points in that lengthy post above. That is what is really good about this blog. Everyone gets a chance to voice opinions. "Comment moderation" really only means one thing. Speak your mind about the issues at hand, without verbally slamming NAMED individuals.
Carpenters have a well known phrase:
Measure twice, cut once.
Bloggers should follow a similar path:
THINK TWICE, WRITE ONCE.
Many unkind words get tossed around when people are upset and type in a hurry.
{'...To clarify the issue, I asked the board what was the breakdown on the 2006-2007 list of repeat and new delinquencies. Nobody had any idea, the business manager, the superintendent, or the board. If they really care, they should know...'
That does not surprise me, nor would expect them to know such information. They are 'trying' (lack of a better word) to run a school. The utility companies are in the same position, and I would assume that the board of directors at UGI are not aware of their ratio of new customer delinquencies v. old delinquencies.”}
If the board does not have any answer, then someone in the highly paid administrative staff who was at the meeting should have some idea as to the repeat and new delinquencies. I was not asking to the penny, just a general idea.
A trend of new names showing up on the list of families in trouble should be of concern to someone in the district if not the board.
I agree it is not surprising they have no answers, after all they lost track of $741,000 of revenue.
“However, thoughout your response to me, you have objected to many of my observations, but at no point did you actually respond or answer the questions. Your response was similar to a response that the board give the public.”
I disagree. My response starts with documented, public information and makes a conclusion. You talk about theory with no documentation.
{“There were a few of you comments that did not seems to make a whole lot of sense to me, such as:
"Payroll taxes cannot not force families from their homes, but school taxes can and do."
You are incorrect - Young people who are striving to obtain the dwindling opportunities for the american dream must take out mortgages to finance the homes. The payroll taxes, being taken from them, are prohibiting these pursuits, and default on a mortgage, and the bank is a heck of a lot quicker to force one from their home then the school is.”}
Your premise for dismissing the significance of delinquencies was that taxes are a part of homeowner’s expenses, therefore, the obligation to pay a property tax was not anything unusual.
As far as I know, federal and state taxes have not gone up over 60% in six years, but the property taxes have.
Therefore, the impact of property taxes on the struggling people you are describing have a profound effect on them keeping their home much less purchasing one.
{"...The cost of education has outpaced inflation and wages, yet independent test scores show little or no academic improvement in relation to the amount of investment..."
This sounds like a politician sound bite. However, I do concede that the cost of education, as well as the cost of health care, etc. are exceeding at too fast of a pace. Therefore, I would suggest that the adults in this country should get on the politicians to correct the curriculum to meet the needs of the future.”}
Your idea to make education accountable by “the adults in this country should get on the politicians to correct the curriculum to meet the needs of the future.”, sounds pretty wishy washy to me.
You set standards and you hold people accountable. If they do not meet these standards, they are replaced with people who can accomplish the task.
This is the impetus behind NCLB.
The school districts have not been doing the job, and this is why standards with penalties are in place.
“To be helpful, it would be interesting in seeing what area's of the budget (and related inflation) are growing at abnormal and unacceptable rates. “
School boards and unions make agreements on salaries and benefits not based on productivity, but based on the highest paying contracts of neighboring districts.
No divergence to private sector pay and benefit is even considered.
A recent study conducted by the Manhattan Institute concluded that the average public school teacher hourly pay was $34.06 compared to $25.06 for the white-collar worker – a 36 percent advantage.
This comparison does not include benefits. The OVSD has the teachers union paying a paltry three percent towards their health insurance, while the private sector worker pays at least 20%, if he has any insurance at all.
The district also has a Medical Pool Fund, which pays for any expenses not covered by health insurance.
According to the 2007-2008 Preliminary Proposed Budget, close to eighty-eight percent of the spending, consists of all salaries and benefits.
This would appear to be a good starting point for any new board member to review.
“Certain area's I can hold the board accountable for, and certain area's are not within the boards control, such as the sweet heart pension funding that the union has via state law, the new and 'improved' requirements for funding special needs children, and a host of additional programs which are constantly jammed down the local boards throats.”
In our case, eighty-eight percent of the budget is in the control of the school board.
They vote on the decisions to give the teachers one of the best contracts in the county.
The state does not mandate the board to award exorbitant agreements.
You can add the over $3,000,000 in debt service, as well. The state does not mandate unnecessary or Taj Mahal buildings.
{"...I think you just defended higher taxes in the name of the “children”..."
I did no such thing. Based on that thought process, you attitude and comments are suggesting that you are in favor of lowering taxes without regard for education or the childrens future.”}
Perhaps, you can show me where I asked for lowering taxes.
What I did say was that the district could have had at least one, no-tax increase budget in the last few years.
They stocked piled millions in off-budget funds while raising our taxes.
We are seeing that they are not using these funds for some type of emergency, but rather for a wish list project just prior to an election.
A $26,000,000 budget that has increased in the last six years is hardly depriving anyone of anything.
Asking the board to be more frugal with their spending decisions is not unreasonable.
The assertion that spending wisely is somehow jeopardizing “the children’s future” is scare tactic, campaign rhetoric.
“I am 100% behind being fiscally conservative, but I am not at all in line with the thought that today's children should do with less then the previous generations.”
Based on your content, I think the claim of being behind the idea of being fiscally conservative is more lip service than fact.
With the billions spent on education at the federal, state, and local levels the implication that students will do without is hyperbole.
“If there is wasteful spending, then lets identify it.”
I think we started with the track, but we can talk about the teachers contract, the legal fees, the cost overruns of the middle school, the cost of the general obligation bonds to finance the school, the superintendent’s one year pay increase, the Medical Pool Fund, the number of days of excused absentees, the size of the administration, the amount of time and money for public relations, etc.
“However, just because something is not mandated doesn't make is wasteful….I agree that the track is not appropriate right now, but that does not mean that all non mandated activities need to be eliminated. Band, basketball, baseball are very usefule and critical activities that I whole heartedly support.”.”
The state does not consider extra curricula activities an educational expenditure. Otherwise, they would provide exemptions to the referendum for this activity.
As long as these functions are within reasonable bounds, they can be accommodated. But, when they escalate to a point where it interferes with the classroom, both in perceived importance, and finances, then they have exceeded their purpose.
This is the reason the state now has controls on district spending.
The board will be required to prioritize spending.
“New technologies - Essential. However, if new technologies are to be used, the are replacing something which should have a cost associated with it.”
I agree, it should be analyzed based on measurable fiscal or educational results not subjective, personal appraisals.
'...I think we started with the track, but we can talk about the teachers contract, the legal fees, the cost overruns of the middle school, the cost of the general obligation bonds to finance the school, the superintendent’s one year pay increase, the Medical Pool Fund, the number of days of excused absentees, the size of the administration, the amount of time and money for public relations, etc...'
I hope that everything proposed in the future is not compared to the sins of the past. If that is the case, new board members won't have a chance.
Wow, Big Brother Blog Master sure does enjoy all the new-found space on the blog now that he's censoring the rest of us.
You take $1.4 million of our money for a track, but we have children in the Elem. School for starts that need help in learning to read. Once a week taking a child out of the classroom to help them with reading is not enough. We need more aides at the Elem. level. If the children cannot read, write and do basic math in the Elem. level they will be lost in the Middle School and High School. For under $10.00 an hour you could get some aides in this district to help the children one on one. Do something now for the children, all the children.
You tell them Al!! You know and have the facts and that kills them.
I do not see alot of Smiles workers in the Elem. School. We could use more of them if you do not want to hire more aides. Just do something now for these children or they will be lost forever. We should of been helping them for years, maybe then we would have higher pssa scores in 11th grade.
5:34 pm
What might you have to say about the issues that Al brought up?
You're bashing him for bringing up some issues, but I don't hear any debate on the issues. I think from everything that has been on the blog, one can see that it has not been all pro-Al.
Tell us your thoughts on the issues. That is if you are interested in the issues.
Comment moderation - enabled
Name-calling slammers - disabled
Let the real debating begin....
'...You tell them Al!! You know and have the facts and that kills them...'
You got to be kidding! What Facts. The response in no more factual than the comments being responded too! It is a series of opinions.
We are the occ. We have the facts. no one else does. Why don't you listen to us? We have the facts. Everyone else is lying.
Everyone else is lying? That's a stretch, isn't it?
The OCC are the only ones who know the truth. We know all the truth.
What next?
Sounds like something out of Germany in the 1930s.....
Rest assured that that 1:47 pm March 3, 10:54 pm March 3rd and 12:37 March 4th are from the same person.
It was not dialogue between the OCC and another person.
Here we go again. Too bad that the anti-OCC bloggers resort to these tactics, and all the while assuming the bloggers and those reading this site are falling for their antics.
The same tactics they use in the Board Room.
The liberals are shown the facts and they head for the hills.
Nancy Drew could figure out this drama, with no help from the Hardy Boys.
In the primary election, faced by the choice between 2 members of the current school board, versus 2 or more supporters of the football team (at $65-100,000/year), versus the husband of a current board member, who you gonna choose? It’s a tough year to hate everybody.
I'm glad to see Al has finally realized that the $740,000 in unanticipated income was actually saved and not spent, as he claimed several times. Now he's claiming they didn't know about it but who told him it existed if not the board?
Also, a small detail, the cost of the track has not been increased from around $800,000 to 1.4 million. The latter includes a synthetic field which could have been added later, if necessary, but at an increased cost and with the possibility of damage to the track.
He is of course perfectly correct that all money whether from the local, state or federal coffers comes from taxpayers. At least with this project we are getting something that can be used by the students and not just "20" of them as claimed. Every team, as well as phys ed classes, will use it.You may not agree that we need it but at least we'll have something- compared to the billions wasted at higher government levels where the money goes into someone's pockets and there is no benefit to anyone but them and the lobbyists and the campaign coffers of the politicians.I don't think anyone has seriously suggested that the school board has personally benefited from this. Allusions to "special interest groups" are misleading in that they imply impropriety for gain as is typical at other govt levels.
According to the new rules, Al and friends can keep on accusing the unnamed members of the school board, whom everyone knows, of all sorts of stinking stuff, but if anyone responds to his attacks, they will be quashed. A true democracy lover in action!
“I'm glad to see Al has finally realized that the $740,000 in unanticipated income was actually saved and not spent, as he claimed several times.”
The board apologists or perhaps board members themselves should take the time and talk to each other before they post.
One person says the $741,000 will be spent on the track, therefore, there will be no tax increase. This poster says it was saved.
Maybe, this confusion is the reason the board had no clue about the money in the first place.
“Now he's claiming they didn't know about it but who told him it existed if not the board?”
The board is required by law to inform the taxpayers of all revenue received by the district.
To imply they are doing us a favor by informing the community of money they claimed they knew nothing about is just an attempt to white wash a major embarrassment.
“Also, a small detail, the cost of the track has not been increased from around $800,000 to 1.4 million. The latter includes a synthetic field which could have been added later, if necessary, but at an increased cost and with the possibility of damage to the track.”
Actually, the cost of the track started at $450,000 with supporters promising to pay half.
Soon, others showed up with their wish list, and the cost rocketed to over $1,400,000.
The board bailed out the supporters who reneged on their commitment, by passing a resolution to pay for “at least half of the track”.
The community was originally told the only reason for the refurbishment was to meet PIAA standards. Besides paying too much for the athletic facility, we are footing the bill for luxurious, non-educatinal add-ons.
The board never asked for bids that were less expensive than a synthetic surface nor did they properly maintain the current track.
“At least with this project we are getting something that can be used by the students and not just "20" of them as claimed.”
Perhaps, the writer should read the post again. It said “It will serve up to 120 students.”
He conveniently forgot to mention there are over 2,000 students who need consideration when spending $1,400,000 of education dollars.
“You may not agree that we need it but at least we'll have something- compared to the billions wasted at higher government levels where the money goes into someone's pockets and there is no benefit to anyone but them and the lobbyists and the campaign coffers of the politicians.”
The poster argues that paying too much for a track to serve a special interest group is better than the waste in big government.
Waste regardless of what level is waste. The person picking up the tab is the taxpayer.
The person hurt the most is the student deprived of the tools necessary to meet the demands of life because money meant for education is diverted to overpay for a "feel good" project.
The misuse of funds is not worthy of praise.
“I don't think anyone has seriously suggested that the school board has personally benefited from this.”
The vote to spend money on the most expensive option for the track, $1,403,356.00 just before the May election has an odoriferous smell.
“Allusions to "special interest groups" are misleading in that they imply impropriety for gain as is typical at other govt levels.”
Finger pointing, denials, misinformation fills the bag of tricks politicians use before an election or to pacify people asking questions.
The overpayment of property taxes to fill up a reserve and some politicians use it as a slush fund on pork in the name of education is a disgrace.
I will continue to say Al has the facts. Also, what husband of a current board member is running? Is it Mr. Bieber, Mr. Gotwals, or Mr. McCarthy. Oh my,my we are in big trouble. This will cause many people to stay home on election day. We have Mr. Heckman, Dr. Cappa and some football people then add to the mix the above husbands. All I can say is Oh Dear Lord pray for us. How much more can the people in this district take?
Hey if we do not like who is running, we can add in a name at the polls. We do not have to elect the people on the ballot.
"A true democracy lover in action!"
What are you whining about? Your post is on the blog. He could have just as easily deleted your insult and nonsense.
DEADLINE:
Who is volunteering their time to serve the public (aka - who is willing to walk the walk, not just talk the talk (or in this case blog the blog)).
I believe today is petition filing deadline to try to be elected to the school board (as well as the other positions).
I hope we had some people go for it.
Now I lay me
down to sleep
new board members
promises to keep?
Please don't follow
like mindless sheep
Young and old
we weep, weep, weep.
As to the complaints about the OCC censoring personal attacks on bloggers...
People keep confusing government entities with private initiatives.
The School Board (a public, government entity) is required by law to share information taxpayers are entitled to know in a public forum. They are not to do anything outside of the light of sunshine, except a few issues that must remain confidential in executive sessions.
The rights and priviledges of bloggers of the OCC site are at the express discretion of the site's webmaster -- BECAUSE, this is NOT a govenment entity. OCC can decide at whim which blogs to allow to be published and which ones are deleted. I'd say the OCC has been a lot more openminded and fairhanded in allowing everyone to display their opinions, without limitations on time and space, to a far greater extent than the school board ever has.
Attacking a blogger is not debate or a presentation of fact. In some cases, comments actually qualify as cruel and immature.
It's a matter of liberty and license. We are at liberty to share opinions, information and rebuttals. We do not have license to engage in character assasinations -- and so it should be.
Hopefully, that will clarify the difference between the school boards actions and illegal method of hiding facts from the public and stifling public opinion vs. the OCC's inherent right to censor anything it wants to (which it rarely does).
And all of the above is my opinion about certain activities and "license" taken with this site.
You go, Al!
Strange how one-sided the statments have been here since the new "final solution" has been enacted.
'...Hopefully, that will clarify the difference between the school boards actions and illegal method of hiding facts from the public and stifling public opinion vs. the OCC's inherent right to censor anything it wants to (which it rarely does).
And all of the above is my opinion about certain activities and "license" taken with this site..."
Sound likes a lawyer's answer. It is o.k. for us to censor, but the law...sunshine...says you can't...
Although you are correct, such censorchip gives the impression that actual debate is only permitted if AL approves it. Therefore, if you disagree w/ AL, you will not be published.
I am not saying that is the case, just the possibility and perceived view of many.
And, as we all know, whether we like it or not:
"Perception equals Reality"
Another problem with the censorship of the blog is the time delay and the stiffling of free flowing thoughts. Waiting hours for updates makes me lose interest.
Please feel free to cross examine!
"Finger pointing, denials, misinformation" aren't only the tricks of politicians- unless OCC is running for office instead of sitting by his aptly named 'web' site and pulling the strings of his puppets.
Whatever happened to all the accusations of misuse of project 720 funds? Or more to the point, what happened to the apologies for this mistake and the inaccurate representation of the whole affair, including the guest list?
Someone wrote "Hey if we do not like who is running, we can add in a name at the polls. We do not have to elect the people on the ballot. 8:51 AM, March 06, 2007"
Guess what? Time is up. If you had plans to run and didn't file your paperwork by 5PM today you missed the boat. If there are only five candidates for five openings then the game is over whether you vote for them or not. It is possible but historically very unlikely to have a successful write-in candidate.
Hi, Dale.
Guess what Mr. know it all, I will not vote at all then. I think if Heckman and Cappa and some husbands of board members run and get in, the time of me dealing with this circus will be over for good.
How much more can any of the taxpayers and children of this district handle?
'... If there are only five candidates for five openings then the game is over whether you vote for them or not...'
The question is: are there five or will it go to an appointment like it did several years ago. Then the loaded deck gets even more loaded.
You never know. If I were the board, I would not count my chickens before they were hatched!
Same for the people who filed their paperwork.
It's never over until it's over.
We have our five horses in the race. We would love to make nov. irrelevant with a sweep in the May primary.
GO OLEY FOOTBALL
I would certainly like to know how the football candidates plan to pay for football and deal with the referendum at the same time.
Who is on the slate of football candidates?
It amazes me to see how quickly the bloggers characterize those who are willing to run for the board. Everyone of you had the opportunity to dedicate your time to run for the board, yet you opted to sit back and bad mouth people who may be willing to rearrange their lives to dedicate some time to serve. You may not agree with those, but speaking ill of them before they have done anything, or that fact, even been elected, is just ignorant!
Next you will be complaining about how the kids are being raised and being disrespectful! Maybe it is time to look in the mirror and truly see who is part of societies problems, not helping with the solution!
As to the mis-use of 720 funds. Until we blew the whistle, 720 grant money WAS going to pay for the dinner. The admin. quickly back pedaled and got the Oley Education Foundation to pick up the tab when the PA Dept. of Education oversight dept. contacted them about using Fed. grant funds for a dinner. Those are the facts.
And I really wonder how many of the Foundation's financial supporters want their money to go for high-priced dinners rather than education. Those would be really interesting facts.
If using 720 funds for a dinner at the Sheraton was allowable, as the admin. first said, why did they see the need to get the foundation to pay for the meal?
Please don't bash us for pointing out the truth. At least our Federal tax dollars didn't pay for this gala at the Sheraton on the backs of the taxpayers.
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